101: Two Promotion Offers in 3 Months

After working together for only 3 months, my client, Michaela had two internal promotion offers sitting in front of her.

In today’s podcast episode, I’m speaking with Michaela so she can share her story and tell you how she did it and the lessons she learned along the way.

When you’re ready to become a top performing leader, book a leadership strategy session to see if executive coaching is right for you. You’ll learn to simplify your leadership style while amplifying your value inside my 1-1 coaching program.

Go to https://melsavage.com/chat to book your leadership strategy session now.

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Transcript

Hey, leaders, welcome back to the podcast. I've got a treat for you today. As you probably know, I spend most of the time on these podcasts talking about different opportunities for leaders to become better leaders, or, in the case of what I'm doing over the course of the next little while, how to specifically get yourself promoted as a leader. What I don't normally do is interview people, and as of today, I'm going to be interviewing several of my clients over the course of the next six to seven weeks and talking specifically about how they got promoted. Not everyone comes to me to work one-on-one to get promoted, but these particular clients were not only working on some leadership skills but also wanted to get promoted, and I want to share their stories with you. I'm so grateful that they've agreed to share their stories and pay it forward to everyone out there listening who needs help and insight to deal with some of the real-life scenarios we're facing in order to get promoted.

Today, I want to bring you a story of one of my clients named Michaela. She came to me for several things, one of them being to get promoted. She'd been in her organization for a long time (she'll talk all about it) and kept missing out on promotions, and she really wanted to get a specific promotion. I'm going to give you the bottom line up front: basically, within three months of working together, she not only had one promotional offer inside her organization but two, and the one she ended up choosing was not even the one that she thought she wanted in the first place. Amazing results! 

I'm sharing Michaela's story, as well as some of the upcoming stories that you'll hear over the next few weeks, in celebration and leading up to the launch of my very first group program dedicated to getting leaders promoted within six months. That is the goal. The program is called Promotions on Demand, and enrollment for that program opens on December 7. Everything I'm talking about, whether it's on social media, on this podcast, or if you're on my email list, is all about the benefits of this program and what you're going to learn. 

But if you want to get a jump on it, hear me talk about it live, ask me any questions, and actually get a sneak peek at some of the things I'm going to teach you in that program, then I recommend you come to my live training on December 5. It's called Get Promotions Dropped in Your Lap, and it's really all about getting promoted on your timeline without having to apply for jobs endlessly, without having to chase your boss and see what hoops they want you to jump through next, and without having to go to really awkward networking events. It's all about taking control of the timeline of your promotion and getting multiple opportunities coming to you that you can choose from based on what you want to see happen in your career.

There are lots of details I can explain to you, but if you want to get not only a sneak peek into the program to see if it's right for you but also a head start in enrollment for Promotions on Demand, then you want to come to this live training. It's on December 5, and all you need to do is go to https://melsavage.com/getpromoted, and you will see all the details. You can sign up for the free training. I highly recommend you show up live, but if you want to get the replay, that'll happen too. The best part is, if you sign up for the live training, you will get a two-day head start on enrollment, plus access to a very, very valuable bonus that I will be sharing live in the training session. Go to https://melsavage.com/getpromoted and sign up for the live training. Even if you don't want to take the program, you're going to learn so much from it. I will be there to answer all the questions.

Now to kick us off, let's get to Michaela and her amazing story and her amazing results, and I hope it inspires you to do the same.

Mel: Welcome, Michaela. Thanks so much for coming on the podcast today. You have such a great story to share with the listeners, and I know everyone is going to be inspired by you. As I said, I just want this to be super casual. We're not going to cut anything out. We're just going to talk as if we were two workmates chatting at the bar over a glass of wine, which is my favourite place to talk. I thought we could just start by having you tell everyone a little bit about who you are. I know that for all of these interviews, we're not going to get into the company names or last names and stuff because confidentiality is important, but maybe you could share your name, title, and a little about why you decided to come and get coaching in the first place.

Michaela: Sure, absolutely. My name is Michaela. I'm the Director of Operations for a large multinational company. I'm based in Western Canada, which is really great, and I've been working for this organization for about 13 years.

Mel: Wow, that's great. You've been there a long time. You've grown up in the organization, right?

Michaela: Very much so, yeah, absolutely. I started, and it was supposed to be a year contract, and it resulted in me staying a lot longer than I thought I ever would.

Mel: And you're doing really well there, but tell me, why did you decide to come and get coaching? Have you ever had coaching before?

Michaela: I hadn't ever had coaching. However, I do have a mentor who just happens to be a coach. She gave me a lot of free coaching over the years, which was quite convenient. But I had been thinking about getting a specific, new, dedicated coach for probably about a year or two, but I feel like it's almost like a therapist or a counselor; it has to be the right fit. It has to be the right vibe. And so I hadn't really come across one that I felt would give me exactly what I was looking for. Then I started feeling like I was hitting a plateau in my career and noticing there were certain areas where I really needed support in developing if I wanted to go to the next level. I came across you, Mel, through this podcast, actually. So, I did some searching on those areas I was looking to develop and looked through a couple of the episodes, and I felt like it was exactly what I needed to hear. So I reached out.

Mel: That's so good. So when you first came, I think what you had said was there were other things, too. I think my listeners know that I coach on all different leadership aspects, but for you specifically, there were some leadership things we were going to talk about. Then, more specifically, you were like, "I need to figure out how to get from where I am to a director role," right?

Michaela: Yeah, absolutely. I had never really wanted to focus that much or be that directed around wanting the next promotion or wanting to get to the next level, but what I realized is that if you're not actively managing and going after those clear objectives, then it's not going to happen. Rarely do things just fall in your lap, and I'm sure they do for some people, but I hadn't seen that come my way. So, I felt like I had to be more targeted around what I was trying to do and was really ready to go to that next level. Now, whether it was a director level or an opportunity at the manager level across the organization that would potentially transition, I think I was probably open to all of those but wanted to understand what the next step was.

Mel: What's interesting too, when you said rarely do things fall in your lap, is that when you do what you're talking about, get out there and start to talk about yourself, things actually do come to you and fall in your lap. But you know, it's interesting—you're at that sort of stage where you're going from, I want to say, the most senior part of middle management into senior management. In that sort of step, I have found that just doing the work and being really great at your job isn't enough to make that leap where it might have been before. How does that speak to you? Is that your experience? What did you see happening?

Michaela: Absolutely. I really had the belief that if I was supporting the team, if we were delivering the result exceedingly, if we were getting positive feedback, and if everything was going better than expected, then the promotions would come. It was a bit jarring to me when there were two opportunities within the organization that were given to other people with whom I felt I was well positioned. It was a bit of a blow, I have to say. It was hard because when you work so hard and are leaning in, you almost feel like the company owes you something at some point, and it didn’t happen. I really had to take a step back and say, “Well, they are smart and talented individuals, and they deserve the opportunity, but what is different with them?” because I would put myself in that same box. And I think what I realized is that they are both very good at managing that visibility at the executive level and are people others talk about when discussing opportunities. And whether or not I was also in that conversation, I'm not sure, but for whatever reason, I felt they had that skill set. It wasn’t something that came naturally to me, and it was something I wanted to develop. I do feel like you have to do a good job, and you have to be able to produce results, but when you get up to the senior leadership level, those are kind of table stakes, and everybody around you has done that. So, what’s the difference between people advancing in the organization and not advancing? That’s a great question to be asking across the board, whether it’s a small organization or not because each organization is going to be a little bit different. So different, and I’m sure everyone’s experience is going to be different, but for me, that would definitely be the case, yeah.

Mel: And so, when you decided—I think, if I remember correctly, that’s when we first met—when you had been turned down for those two other jobs. Maybe that was one of the last straws or the straw that broke the camel’s back, or whatever it was. I don’t know if you can say that anymore, but there it is—I just said it, yeah. But when you decided that you were going to start advocating for yourself more, what was the hardest part for you in thinking about doing that?

Michaela: Feeling like it wasn't authentic, I really struggled with self-promotion. I felt much more comfortable promoting the team, my team's results, or what we had been doing, versus a human as an "I." I also saw it being done poorly as far as politics or brown-nosing, and I didn’t want to be something that I had to do in order to get promoted. It's just trying to find the balance between doing something that was authentic, and that felt right for me, but not going too far. And I do feel like reaching out and talking about yourself is something that you have to do, but inevitably, you're going to be forcing yourself outside of that comfort zone. But I think there are many different ways to do that, and many different scenarios to be able to find a way that makes sense.

I would also say that the other thing that was really blocking me at first was feeling like the time that was required to support that evolution and manage my career when I put it across some of the other work that I was doing, it was hard for me to prioritize that. Because inevitably, if you're going to be coaching, the time with a coach is important, but it's more important to be doing the work outside of it, and you do have to look at committing, whether it's an hour or two a week, whether it's three, whatever works for you. Yet there's time there that has to be dedicated. And at that point, when we had started working together, I felt like I didn’t have any hours to give in my week. And so that was a bit of a struggle as well.

Mel: I think that's such a good point. I'll start with that one, and I want to go back to the other one. I think a lot of people don't do it because they don't have any hours in their week, and they think that taking care of their career is something that they need to do on their own time. One, they think it's something you need to do on your own time. Then two, they think there are no more hours to give to something like that because, for a lot of people, it's the lowest thing on the priority list. And I want to get a sense from you, too, about why that might be in your mind. Why would it be the lowest thing on the priority list?

Michaela: I think it goes back to that foundational belief that we talked about originally, that if you feel like you're doing a good job, producing results, supporting your team, you're going to get promoted. We've already established but that's not the case. So I think that it's really just having that awareness around the fact that if you want to promote and develop your career, you have to actively manage it in a way that is going to make sense for the organization. And then I also think the other thing that, subsequently, you've helped me with as well, is just being really thoughtful about what is showing up in your calendar. Whose priorities are on your calendar? Is it your priorities, or is it somebody else's and being thoughtful about that?

Mel: I want to congratulate you on that, because just for everybody, Michaela has to travel a lot with her job too, and she's got a lot of really big initiatives. We all have big initiatives, but they're very highly emotionally charged initiatives. So sometimes that means you have to be able to be very reactive and available to people when they have issues and that kind of thing. And I think even someone like you who travels so much and has such a charged job, I'll call it that, found the time. You figured out how to make it work. It is possible if you want to do it because it doesn't really take that much to find an hour or two in your week. It's that one meeting that you're going to where you're really just doing your emails instead of going and writing presentations, like don't go to that meeting or question a bit more or just say no to some meetings or send somebody else. What was your biggest tactic, or your most successful tactic in finding time in your calendar?

Michaela: I think scheduling is important for sure, but I'm also a big believer in finding alignment with activities. So, one of the benefits I realized with coaching is, yes, you can develop the foundational knowledge if you're doing training or if you're listening to a podcast or you're reading a book, and all of those are really important and require concentrated time to do. However I do think that the value of coaching is the practical application to real-life scenarios. So, when you're working directly with a coach, you're having the opportunity to have them challenge how you're thinking about things, or how you're approaching different things, in order to ensure that there's alignment in achieving your goal.

I know a really good example of that, Mel, was when I was working through a scenario when we were doing a communication strategy, and my original approach around developing that strategy was really to work at my level across the organization to develop it collectively with alignment, make sure everyone's comfortable, and then have each of those teams be managing their upline and communicating it appropriately. But because we had identified that exposure and visibility were important areas that needed to develop in order to make it to the next level, I think you had pushed me to say, "Well, why don't you use this opportunity to be able to test that strategy? Understand if it's going to be fit for purpose for the leaders, the executives in this organization." And that felt really great for me because I felt like I was—and this is also probably politically not correct—hitting two birds with one stone in the sense that you're finding that alignment, or you're finding ways to apply what you're learning in your existing job without spending more time doing so.

Mel: I think that's a great segue too, because I wanted to come back to what you originally said was one of the challenges, which was self-advocating authentically and feeling. Because whenever you actually—and I put this in lots of notes, in social media posts and things too—it's just that if you notice that someone is self-advocating, then they're not doing it right. If they're doing it right, you don't notice. Like when you are having those one-on-ones with senior management and talking about yourself, no one sees that. That's just a normal thing to do. When you are, like the example you just gave, taking the opportunity as part of your day job to expose yourself to people that maybe you wouldn't normally have face time with or exposure to and demonstrating your value to them, that is part of self-advocacy. It's just more intentional, and you're thinking, "Not only do I get the opportunity to have exposure to these people, but I'm going to do it in a way that aligns with what I want to achieve." And it's just, I guess, as you say, capitalizing on those opportunities that already exist more so and then intentionally creating those opportunities to just have them as a normal part of the day job, right? That's really where self-advocacy lives the best. But you don't notice that. And so that's why, when you see it, you think, "Oh yeah, slimy."

Michaela: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's actually a really good thought. If you're seeing it and you're noticing it, then it's probably not happening correctly. But what I have found is, if you look across the organization and you see people in the room that are doing it well, like if we're observing, what exactly are they doing, or how are they doing it? And I think a really good example of this is just advocating for yourself to be invited to certain meetings. So if you have a good relationship with a boss or a mentor that you're comfortable with, talking to them to say, "Hey, one of my goals, one of my objectives, is really to get more visibility and exposure. Is there an opportunity for me to join a more senior-level meeting and talk about the work that I'm doing?" That, for me, feels quite authentic because you feel like you're bringing value, and you're talking about something that you're passionate about, that you're knowledgeable about, that presumably you're doing a good job at. And then you're getting that exposure in a way that makes sense. You're almost advocating to yourself with those that you trust in order to help bring you into those more senior rooms.

Mel: And then I think also—I love those examples, thank you for sharing those—and then you pepper that with, again, intentional one-on-ones with certain kinds of people to talk about what you want to do so they understand you and have a filter and a lens to look at you through as you're doing those kinds of things, which you started doing as well. And then, all of a sudden, a job came up.

Michaela: And they fall to my lap? Yeah.

Mel: To your lap. And it wasn't the thing you thought, because when we first started talking, there was a specific job that you felt would be the easiest, like the lowest hanging fruit, the easiest way to get promoted. But this wasn't that. Tell us what happened.

Michaela: Yeah, absolutely. I had a line of sight around the next opportunity. It was in the area that I had been working in for the previous 13 years—a subject I knew very well. I felt like I would be a natural fit for that opportunity. And then it was actually a senior leader, an executive from a different facet of the business, that had reached out to me and just asked if I would be interested in applying for a role, a role that I knew was coming up, but not one that I felt like I would have the skill set for. And I felt that that was—it was initially really intimidating for me and something that I didn't think I would be a fit for, but he talked to me a little bit about why they were looking for somebody different, what the change was that was going on, and why he felt like I might be a good fit, and really encouraged me to apply. And I ended up being successful in that. And it was a bit of a surprise because it did feel like it came out of nowhere. In large organizations—I'm sure some of the listeners have experience with this—it's hard to sometimes get a promotion within your existing business line and/or move across business lines. And somehow I was able to do both at the same time. And so, I don't take that for granted in any way, but I know that was really great to see after I worked so hard in an organization.

Mel: I think, obviously, all the work you've done for 13 years brought you to that point, and the relationships that you built, and also putting a bit more emphasis on what you were trying to do, make people see you and think of you. Really, it's because my background is in marketing. It's—you just need to create top-of-mind awareness around you and the messages that you want people to have about you. That's really all this is, anything else, right? So, you interview for this job, and it's going well, this job that wasn't on your list, but then you also had—because they knew you were doing that—the job that they were slow-rolling, basically, that you wanted in the first place, they decided they also wanted you, right?

Michaela: Yeah, that was really a good scenario to have, very often. But yeah, I did have two really great opportunities to choose between, and either of them I would have benefited from. Either of them would have been great for growth and development. But ultimately, I felt like, as you're building your career, being able to develop in different areas and different skill sets, and really going for opportunities where you're going to learn the most and develop the most is huge, in my mind, should be some of the biggest drivers for those jobs. So, I did end up taking the one that was a little bit outside of my comfort zone and a little bit outside of the norm. But it was great.

Mel: I just want to underline, though—yes, I love that you just said we're going to come back to that. But I want to underline, like, in three months of just putting some emphasis on what you were doing and doing your job well still, at the same time, two opportunities came your way. That's amazing. Two promotion opportunities came your way.

Michaela: It is, it really is. And you're correct, but it probably is worth taking a step back and being appreciative of that. And it goes to show you, back to the original part of the conversation, being directed and targeted about what you're actually trying to achieve is important. Whether or not you believe in manifestation, you have to put it out there, and then you have to start talking about your interest in doing so everywhere. Whether or not there's a line of sight to a job or an opportunity or not, just understanding and having people understand that you're looking to grow and develop and you want to stay with the organization, or you want to leave the organization, or whatever makes the most sense for you. But actively putting it out there and talking about it, I think, really does allow those things to fall into your lap.

Mel: And then you had these two jobs to choose from, and you chose the one that was going to help you grow more. But I also want to say I felt you chose the one that was going to teach you the things that you needed to learn to be able to achieve the career goals that you had that we talked about in one of our sessions, like the latest sessions, right? What you're doing now really aligns with that, and it actually helps not only align with your career goals but also with some of the leadership skills that you want to get better at. It allowed you to actually practice those, like one of them was letting go of the project work, getting your hands out of the project work, and really leading from a higher level. This job is going to allow you—force you—to do that because you're not the expert right at the junior level. So I think that's amazing and so courageous.

Michaela: Yeah, I would agree with you. When I was looking at these opportunities, I think, as you've developed your career and you've built it, you start, inevitably, you're getting promoted because you're doing well, so you're almost the expert in something, and you're leading a team. But I don't want to say you know all of the answers because, of course, that's not the case, but your ability to get to a solution is a lot quicker than somebody new coming into your team, and so you almost feel like you always have the answers, which is, I think you had mentioned, a bit of a lazy play to lead across an organization back to the challenging self-belief. But I think that's right, like, you intuitively know something so well that you don't have to rely on leading the team and having them provide those recommendations themselves. And this is because, as you mentioned, Mel, I don't have the expertise in the line of business that I'm currently in. The reason why they've put me in here is specifically for leadership and, managing change and culture and all of those pieces, not the doing piece. And so it's really getting up and out of the "we" and strategically managing a team across many different pieces of work. So it is a great opportunity for me to be able to develop that piece that I was definitely missing previously.

Mel: I also want to add just more for you that they also gave you this job because you are a master at dealing with complicated situations and leading people through them and solving them, and given what your organization is trying to do. I mean, you're the perfect person for this job. They're so lucky to have you. So I just think it's also important to tell you that. If we had a glass of wine, we would cheers to that right now. I'll have to record these later in the day so I can drink more as I'm doing this.

Michaela: I'll cheers with my coffee.

Mel: So as you went through this, what did you learn about yourself? I mean, I have some thoughts, but I want to offer you first. What growth did you see in yourself? What did you learn about yourself as you were learning to self-advocate and start to position yourself?

Michaela: I think it was a really good reminder to me that you develop skills in every area. I think that there's a part where, yes, you develop technical skills. Everybody knows that, but leadership and managing your career is a skill set. There are certain things that you have to apply and skills that you have to apply in that area, and it's just like any other job. And so if you approach it in that way, start to understand where am I less proficient. What are the things that I need to be working on here? Learn what those skills are, however, that makes sense for you. They're softer skills, but they're so important. And I think I felt, because originally I’m a bit more of an understated individual, I just felt like my personality maybe wasn’t aligned with more of that senior leadership because I didn’t have all of the charisma. I wasn’t going out, I wasn’t the loudest voice in the room, but you can find a way to be authentic to yourself while developing the skills that you need in order to do that. And I think that's really important because we get promoted, and you become a leader because you're a good doer, and then you're a first-line leader, and then there's a skill set that you're going to have to develop between being a first-line leader to being more at an executive level. And we can't underestimate the level of development that's required for that. So it’s good for me to look at it because then I think we talked about this before. If I know the areas that I need to work on, then I can teach, work on them and develop them, just like any other skill that I would do in a technical arena.

Mel: I love that. That’s really good. I really wanted to add, too, that I remember when we first met, and you're not the only one who comes to me like this. There’s a real shyness. I don’t know if these are the exact words you used, but it was something along the lines of, “I don't know if I'm confident enough to be able to do this. I don’t feel like it's right or comfortable talking about myself in any way or advocating even for myself, even if it was done in an authentic way.” And the change that I've seen in you is, “Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. I’m going to talk about it.” It didn’t come up. It came up in the first two or three times we coached, and then I've never heard about it again.

Michaela: Yeah, absolutely, it is still there, admittedly, that I think has been better at just putting it to the side and just knowing that that's part of it, and this is an important thing to do, and it doesn't mean that it's a bad thing. This is just part of this. I don’t want to say game because it sounds inauthentic, but it’s really part of the game. If you're going to play the game well, then you’ve got to learn how to do it.

Mel: I was thinking this morning, what's the hard part of leadership that's been coming up in a lot of sessions this week? And the hard part isn't, like in the case of self-advocacy—let's talk about it in that context—the hard part isn't the actual being in the room and talking about yourself. In my mind, it's like the walk to the room, the thinking about doing it, the getting prepared to do it part. I was thinking about it in the context of working out this morning. It's like the hardest part for me of running on the treadmill isn't running on the treadmill; it's the putting my shoes on before I get on the treadmill that takes the most emotional effort from me of the whole practice. And I think in what you're saying too, it's okay. I'm going to feel nervous, like letting myself feel nervous and trying to allow that to be there. And also, I want to do this, and this is what I want to do—be the right thing for me—and it's actually not going to be scary. And holding space for both of those emotions and moving forward and taking action, that is the hardest part. It's not the action itself, I find, in all of this.

Michaela: Mine would very much agree with that. And in adding to that too, which was something that you supported me on as well, taking a moment to be self-aware of how you're showing up in that meeting. What is the energy that you're wanting to put out there? If you're in the meeting, and you're focused on being calm, being confident, knowing that you can access the expertise that you need when you have it or when you're asked, that allows you to manage your state appropriately before you go into that meeting. And I think that's a big part of it as well, just taking that breath on your way to the meeting.

Mel: I don’t want to bring that up because it's so true. We don't do that, right? We just leave one meeting, hope we have time to use the bathroom before we get to the next meeting. But if we just take the time—and really, it takes, and people go, "I don't have the time"—it just takes seconds, honestly, to just ground yourself in, "Okay, who am I trying to be in this room?" And when you already have a roadmap for that, and you just have to reground yourself in that roadmap as you walk in the room, it really helps you stay focused. Thank you. So now you started your new job. So far, what's been your most successful tool in onboarding into this job?

Michaela: I think, for me, the focus that I've had is to really not feel like I have to produce results, but I have to boil the ocean immediately. Establishing trust with the team, from my perspective, in this role, is my number one priority. So I am more focused on meeting everybody and asking questions, on learning, on trying to understand them and how pieces fit together, rather than coming in and feeling like you have to prove yourself or you have to produce results. Yes, there is always this need to be able to demonstrate that. But when you're talking about the first initial onboarding period, really, the goal is just to make sure that you have a good understanding of what the system is, as well as what you don't know and where you need to develop those skills. So I think that's really important, and to be kind to yourself in that. And humility is a real bitch, but it's a really great thing as well. And it's another good lesson to learn if you're coming into this.

Mel: I was just about to ask you, but you just started talking about it. Like I was gonna say, what's been the hardest part of doing that? What you're saying—humility, I think, is one. Like just letting our ego—like talking to our own egos, going, "You don't have to prove yourself in the first week. Just calm down. It's going to be okay." I find myself even—I'll go back to running—"Oh, you don't have to run at the fastest possible speed you can run at every run. You're allowed to have slow runs." I find the slow runs emotionally harder sometimes, just to not touch the button. Do not speed up the treadmill. And I think that's a good metaphor for this, absolutely. But is there anything more specifically that you found hard in doing this as your onboarding?

Michaela: I think the awareness too, when you're coming into—especially in a big organization—going back to how I felt when I would pass over in those promotions. You know, there are people in this organization that probably wanted this role and were going after it, or across the organization, and now you're working with them. And coming in and being able to establish that dynamic. I've been really aware of that. Now, I've been lucky that I haven't been getting the pushback, or everyone's been very gracious, but you know how it feels. Yeah, and I have no doubt, and I want to be friends with that as well as I'm coming in.

Mel: I love that. So good. 

Michaela: Just being thoughtful.

Mel: So good. So I have two questions. One of them is going to be, what advice would you have for someone who's trying to get promoted? And then the other question is going to be, is there anything else you want to share that I didn't ask you? You get to start with either one. 

Michaela: The advice I would have is to really understand the system that you're trying to get promoted within because it's going to be different in every scenario. Understanding what's working for you, what's not working for you, looking around and saying, who are the people that are getting promoted and why, and potentially talking to them about what they did or what they felt like they had to do in order to get to that next step. Because you don't get promoted in a vacuum. It's very much dependent on the dynamic, the people that are there, the personalities, the job opportunities, and the culture of the system. So really understanding that is the game, and then finding a path that makes sense for you without feeling like you have to change yourself to do that.

Mel: What I really love about—and people may not notice this; I want to point it out—is what I love about what you're saying and your overall approach to this whole thing has been very process-oriented. You haven't been largely taking this personally at all. You haven't made it personal. Even though I'm not saying 100% of the time, you've never made it personal, but it hasn't been a big part of our discussions at all. Like, why didn't I get promoted? How come that person—she's not really ready for it? They don't like me. None of that has ever come up. You really just said, "Okay, look, let me look at the process. Let me look at my organization. Let me look at what's happening. Let me really just objectively assess why these people are getting promoted. What do I need to do? Okay, I'm gonna do those." It was very process-oriented. You were able to really separate your self-worth from this whole process of getting promoted, which I don't think is an easy thing to do for most people. So I think the way, even the way you talk about it, is so amazing. And I just think it's really important to shine a light on that as well because I think that's a critical part of it. You need to take yourself out of it and focus on the process.

Michaela: Yeah, and I would advocate that that is something that a coach can help you do as well—being able to have that objective perspective when you may feel too much like you're in it, and being able to challenge that. So if you are feeling like maybe that is your initial reaction, that might be a good opportunity for you to be looking elsewhere to say, "How can I get some support to maybe understand this a little bit more, to challenge myself on this?"

Mel: All right. I'm not going to keep you much longer. One last question. Anything else you want to share? Anything I didn't ask? No pressure. You can say no.

Michaela: I don't know if I have too much more to say, other than I would really advocate that if you feel like you're not in the scenario you want to be in, either within your role or your job, or you feel like you want to take the next step, go out and actively figure out what that takes to do it. Get the support you need. It is possible. I mean, this isn't a black hole for people. Anybody can do it. It's just about understanding what that is.

Mel: I love that. Thank you. That's so amazing. I agree. I'm in 100% agreement with that. Anybody can do this. You just have to figure out what to do and then do it. I know it sounds so simple, but it's figuring out what to do. Sometimes we need help figuring that out and then doing it. We just need a push sometimes, but you can do it and get the help that you need. I love it. Thank you so much. That was amazing, and congratulations on all your success.

Michaela: Well, I appreciate all the support you've given me. Lots more to do. So I want to thank you for that.

Mel: We’re going to work together again. I'm so excited. 

Okay, everyone, thanks to Michaela for sharing her story, and I'll talk to you next week. I'll be bringing another story next week. Talk to you soon. Bye for now.