104: Building Back My Confidence and Getting a Promotion

My Client, Ruth, had her confidence shattered by a toxic work situation.

After working together, she didn’t just bounce back—she got promoted out of that step-back role and set her career back on track, stronger than ever.

In today’s podcast episode, Ruth shares how she overcame the self-doubt and fear that held her back. She talks candidly about the steps she took to reset her mindset, rebuild her mojo, and claim the opportunities she deserved.

When you’re ready to become a top performing leader, book a leadership strategy session to see if executive coaching is right for you. You’ll learn to simplify your leadership style while amplifying your value inside my 1-1 coaching program.

Go to https://melsavage.com/chat to book your leadership strategy session now.

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Transcript

Hey, leaders, welcome back to the podcast. I have another treat for you today. On this series of interviewing my clients and hearing about their successes, I am getting such great listenership with these podcast episodes because you're not just hearing from me on how to get promoted in this case, but also you're hearing from real people who are doing it themselves, which is so fantastic because each of my clients has a different take, a different issue. 

We heard from Michaela, who was trying to get promoted internally into a new role. We heard from Becca, whose company was shutting down, and she needed to find a job. We heard from Selena, who wanted to move up and get more responsibility. And now we're hearing from Ruth. Ruth's story was a little different in that, along the way in her career, she lost her confidence. She ended up in a relationship, like we all do, with a toxic situation, and it broke her. It broke her confidence. 

I've had that in my career. It was actually my last corporate job. It broke me—very traumatic. We've all had it, or we've been in a relationship that kind of broke us. Careers are no different. When you're in a relationship with your work and something traumatic happens, it's very toxic. You lose your confidence. It makes you gun-shy, and that's what happened to Ruth. She lost her confidence, and in this podcast today, she's going to talk about how she reset herself and was able to go after a job that she was more than capable of.

I think this is a story for everyone because, whether you've been broken in a job before or had a bad experience that really held you back—in fact, in Ruth's case, she took a step back. She actually took a job that was more junior than what she was doing because she needed to go to a safe place. But whether that's you or you want to get promoted and you're just lacking confidence, I think this is going to be a great episode for you to hear Ruth's story and get some real tidbits of wisdom—some real gold in here—on what she needed to do to get her mojo back. Eventually, she got promoted out of the job she was in, which was kind of a step back, and then got her mojo back and got her career back on track, which is such a big part of what I help my clients do. In this case, it's about getting the job they want, but also, as you know, I help them be the best that they can be in that role.

Today, you're going to hear about Ruth's story, and I am doing this series of interviews in celebration and as a lead-up to the launch of my new program called Promotions on Demand. As you know, I normally coach one-on-one, helping leaders be better leaders, but this is going to be a group coaching program specifically dedicated to helping leaders get promotion opportunities dropped in their lap, whether it's inside the organization or outside the organization. Whether you want to get promoted today or a year from now, or whether you're not really interested in promotion but you really want to get those juicy opportunities brought to you in your industry or in your organization, this is the program for you. It is launching in two days. 

If you want to get in on it early, I suggest you sign up for my free training, which is also about how to get promotions dropped in your lap. It's kind of an overview of the entire program, and what you're going to learn, and I'm going to give you a lot of executable ideas and strategies that you can take away from the free training.

If you want to get in on the free training and you're listening to this on the morning of December 5, before 11 a.m. Eastern Time, then you can still get in on the free training, which you can do at melsavage.com/getpromoted. 

Now, if you're listening to this after 11 a.m. and you're like, I still want to get in on this enrollment, then you can go to melsavage.com/joinpod. Join P as in Paul, O as in Oscar, and D as in David. I don't know what the right words are to go with those letters, but joinPOD. It's for Promotions on Demand, and you can see everything you need to see about the program, and you can sign up there.

Public enrollment actually opens on December 7, which is Saturday, at noon. I'm giving people who come to my free training a 48-hour window to get sort of head-of-the-line access, front-of-the-line access, to enroll in the program. But for the public, it's going to be opening on Saturday, and it's open until December 19. Sign up for my free training. If you actually sign up for the free training—even if it's after 11 a.m.—you'll actually get the replay. So that's good too. You'll get the replay. Anybody who's on there, my registrant list will be on the replay. You can get it, and then you can sign up ahead of time, too. So that's kind of fun.

Bottom line, if you're like, "Okay, Mel, just tell me the one thing I have to do," go to melsavage.com/getpromoted. One word: getpromoted. Go there, and you'll be asked to sign up for the free training, and then you'll get the free training as a replay. If it's past time for the free training, you'll be automatically redirected to the sales page anyway, which is kind of like an overview of the program. All that's there for you.

If you want to get promoted in 2025 and you want to not have to go and chase your boss or work all the extra hours or send endless applications online or go to really awkward networking events, then, my friend, you need to join this program, because we are going to help you build a personal leadership brand and market that brand in a normal, not weird way, without overworking so that all of these amazing promotion opportunities are brought to you. You don't want to miss out. 

Without further ado, let's hear Ruth's story. It is so inspiring. Over to Ruth.

Mel: ​​Welcome to the podcast, Ruth. It's so great to have you here.

Ruth: ​​Thank you for having me.

Mel: ​​I love it. Thank you for sharing your story. It's going to help people so much. I love your story, and I think it's worth sharing with everyone. Before we begin, though, let's just talk a little bit about why you decided to even get coaching in the first place, because when we first started our journey together, it was actually a little bit about moving up in your organization, but it wasn't necessarily about getting to where you are right now. Tell us a little bit about why you started coaching in general.

Ruth: ​​For sure. I didn't start out looking for coaching, but I stumbled across your free webinar, I was listening to that webinar one day, working here at my kitchen counter, and you talked about some common experiences that people have in their work careers. And I thought to myself, I recognize some of those. And you talked a lot about values and how to work according to your values and plan according to your values. And I kind of thought, oh, yeah, I have some of those lying around here somewhere. 

You talked about all the skills and strategies that we bring to planning in our work world, our project, our directives, and our deliverables. And I thought, yeah, I do know how to do that. And it was just a bit of a breath of fresh air and helped me kind of realize how far I had moved away from that way of thinking about myself and my work, and kind of left me hungry for a little bit more. That's when I decided, hey, this coaching thing could maybe help me get back to working in this way that I remember working before, but it's been a long time, and I've really gotten off track.

Mel: I'm just going to speak about this generically too, because as you were speaking, what came to mind was, when we first started talking to each other, you went through something I think a lot of people go through in their career, which was a traumatic work experience of some kind, where we end up losing faith in ourselves and what we're able to do and how great we are and where and how we provide value to people. Because of that experience. It's happened to me in my career. You and I talked about it. I know it has happened to a lot of my listeners, where they've gone through something as a leader or at some point along their journey of growth that's left them feeling like, oh, maybe I'm not cut out. Maybe I need to take a step back. Maybe I need to pause. Maybe I need to change my career or something.

When we first started, you were kind of going through that a little bit where you're like, okay, I am not sure about how I bring my values to what I'm doing. And I did take a little bit of a pause like you were working, but you were taking a pause in terms of your growth trajectory, let's call it, and you were trying to find a way to get back on track. Would that be fair in how I'm explaining it, or would you add anything to that?

Ruth: That is definitely fair. But I think I only see that in hindsight, and that you helped me to see that. I think my work experiences that had been difficult were ones that—it's kind of like when you're feeling under the weather, but you're not sick enough to be in bed all day, and then you're like, am I sick? Am I just tired? And then when you start to feel better, you're like, oh no, I really must have had something, because now that I feel better, I realize how badly I felt. And I think if we had started out our coaching relationship with that kind of story, I don't know that I would have said, oh yeah, that's me. But as we've kind of progressed, I've realized, oh yeah, my confidence did take much more of a hit than maybe I thought. And I was kind of coasting, hiding out, pausing. I wasn't in the driver's seat in terms of thinking about and planning for and actively engaging in my career and where I wanted it to go.

Mel: Right. And I'm so glad. I will say too, once you had a realization, you quickly grounded yourself after that, which I just want to say is a testament to you, because some people wallow a little bit, which is fine. We all have different—I wallowed for a long time after mine, so I'm not one to judge. But what I'm trying to say here as a compliment to you, is that you just quickly got back on track, and you were able to let things go very quickly and get your career back on track.

When we first started working together, you wanted to almost reposition yourself internally where you were working at the time. That's where we started with this. And so what was working for you in that experience first? 

Ruth: Just in terms of a bit of context, I’d had a difficult experience in my industry, taken a big, risky step outside of my industry, which had also been a difficult experience. When we started working together, I was less than a year into a step back into my industry, but at a much kind of more junior position, junior level. And so I was really happy with the organization I was working for and the people that I was working with. And so my first ambition was to see if I could grow my way back up within that organization.

I think the strategies and the approaches that we took to that were the practical things, like the quarterly career planning, the leadership brand, but so much of it was just learning to trust myself again and to remind myself that I can decide what's important to me. I can decide who I want to be when I show up at work. I can decide what relationships to build and what networks to connect with and how to position myself within those relationships and networks. 

So we worked on, of course, a career goal, and it felt really good to be back in the driver's seat, knowing where I wanted to go and working in the slow drip—I think was your word—slow drip way to get there. The strategies were definitely helpful, but the feeling different, feeling back in control, was the biggest factor, I think.

Mel: And sometimes they both work concurrently. They're different things, but they actually support each other. Building your self-trust helps create clear career goals. Creating clear career goals and activating against those actually builds trust. So both of those things work well together and help in moving forward.

I want to just also say, as we built that career goal, what was really interesting when you bring up the job, well, there are two things actually I want to say. One is, we did come up with a really good career plan. But the other thing that you said was how you started to feel like you had permission. Oh, it's normal to do these things. It's normal to start to build my relationships.

For everyone listening too, sometimes we just need permission. We're not really sure what's normal or what's not normal. And I just want to thank you, Ruth, for bringing that up, and say, on behalf of Ruth and myself, we are giving you permission. Go out there and build the relationships for yourself internally and externally because that is part of the job now as you're a leader.

And you started doing that in the context of your career goal, and it's so interesting. I think it was almost like back to back—or maybe it was a session in between—but we had to establish your career goal, some context around it, and what it was going to look like and fit into your life. Then either the next session, or a couple of sessions later, you brought up this job that a friend of yours had mentioned a few times and kind of brought it up in the context of, I don't really want this. I was at first coaching you about how to allow yourself to not take it if that's what you really wanted. But then as I was listening to the job, I'm like, wait a second Ruth, this actually sounds like the perfect job for you and completely aligns with your goal. Why would you wait two years to build that where you are right now? Why not just actually explore this? Tell me a little bit about how that experience was for you.

Ruth: Yeah, I definitely brought it to you with the hope that you would give me permission to disregard it, or to say no, or to say, "No, it's okay to want to stay where I'm at and dig in and continue on this kind of pathway that I was trying to build for myself." But that career goal on paper—it was really a no-brainer. I remember in that session, you asked me two questions, and one you kind of answered for me, but both of them were really important questions. You said, You can stay where you're at and keep doing what you're doing. You can explore this new option. What do you want?

And I think, to your point about permission, that really gave me permission to say I can decide what I want. There's not a right or wrong. I’d been thinking a lot about some of my previous work steps as mistakes or bad decisions that I’d made. And so, permission to want and to set my sights on something and go for it—and make good no matter what happened from that situation—was a really significant piece.

Then the second question you asked me was, Do you trust yourself? And I was at the place in our work together where I was starting to see what that looked and felt like. I was able to say, "Yeah, I can trust myself to give this my best go, to see where it leads me, and to be okay exploring both of these options, or continuing to plan and be in control of my career, no matter what happens next."

Mel: I love this story, and I want to just build off what you're saying. Let's start with the last thing: Can you trust yourself? I think anyone asking themselves that question sometimes thinks, Oh, can I trust myself to do this? Can I trust myself to show up? Can I trust myself to take this chance? But I also want to underline: Can you trust yourself to take care of yourself no matter what happens? Can you trust yourself to have your own back? Let's say you had gone for this job, and it didn’t work out. (Spoiler alert: It did.) But let’s say it hadn’t worked out. Did you trust yourself to actually be okay with it and not go back into hiding? That was part of, I think, that question as we were talking about it as well. I think you had built up enough confidence to know this was just another step, just to see it, just to practice: Can I actually show up for this job? What is the experience that I will get in going through this process?

So I want to come back to making a decision, but is there anything you want to add to that? (By the way, everyone, Ruth is also not well. She has a cold, and she's showing up anyways for this, which I totally appreciate. But she does mute every now and again to have a coughing fit. So sorry about that!) I love filling in the gap, by the way. I love to chat. So is there anything that you want to add to that?

Ruth: Yeah, I've been thinking a little bit about the analogy of driving a car. It's not a perfect analogy, but when I was in some of those difficult work situations, I had a friend who would say to me, "It's time to start the car." That was our little signal that this was not working well, and I needed to look for something else. In retrospect, I did start the car, but I feel like I more called an Uber or hopped on a bus or something where, in retrospect, I was not taking on—I wasn’t answering—those two questions. I wasn’t saying, What do I want? and Do I trust myself? I was saying, How do I get to the next thing? Because this isn’t working.

And I think as I was considering, preparing, and deciding to go for this job opportunity, I was thinking more: I can decide to make this a stop on my journey, and if it turns into something, I can make that work. And if it doesn’t, I can make where I’m at work. That felt very different than the more recent job changes, where I felt like I was maybe in a car driving away, but I wasn’t the driver.

Mel: I think that’s such a great analogy, because, like you just said, once you know that you have the power to be happy (I’ll call it “happy” or “content,” or to get the most out of either experience, because that is in your power), then all of a sudden making the decision is so much easier. It’s not like choosing the “right” decision is going to impact your happiness. You’re like, No, I can be happy, and I can strategically squeeze the juice out of each of these job opportunities. That’s not what’s at stake here. This is really just a practical exercise: Do I want this job? Do I want to try for this job? And either way, I’m going to be fine, right? And I think that takes a lot of the pressure off.

The other thing I wanted to add about decision-making for everyone is this: There is no wrong decision. I know that’s hard for people to believe, but any decision that you make in a situation like this—I had another client this week talking about, Is it time for me to go in her job?—I think any decision you make is the right decision, if you like your reasons for making the decision. So, in the case of this other client (and I’ll just do a quick aside on this), she wanted to leave because she was not getting along with her boss, and some of her peers were making it difficult, and she wasn’t feeling valued. I won’t get into the details, but I just said to her, Is that the reason? Do you like those reasons for leaving?

Her answer was, “No, I don’t. I’d rather leave because I’m finding the best opportunity that’s going to help me achieve my goals faster, or I’m going to learn new things.” Those are the kinds of reasons. “That’s why I would choose to leave—because maybe I’ve accomplished what I need to accomplish here, and now I’m going to go accomplish great things at the next place. Not because I’m running away.”

So, when you ask yourself, Do I like my reasons for making this decision? That’s all you really need—to like your reasons. That’s because you can make any decision, to your point, Ruth, a great decision for you. It’s really all about how you show up for the decision after the fact.

Now, you start interviewing for the job. What was that experience like? Tell us a little bit about that job opportunity. It was at least—I want to say—at least one, maybe two roles above where you are right now, back in the field that you were in. Tell us a little bit about how and why this was such a great opportunity for you.

Ruth: I was in a position back in the same industry, but kind of in a different area and at a more junior level. So, this opportunity was an opportunity to be in a manager role again, and also the opportunity to build something new. It was a new position with a new mandate—the opportunity to build a new team and to start something from scratch, which doesn’t happen very often in the industry I’m in. So, that was very exciting to me. The application process spanned over a few months. It didn’t feel like a quick process.

Mel: That came to you, right? It kind of “dropped in your lap” a little bit.

Ruth: Yeah. One of the pieces that really stands out to me from that experience is, after the final interview for the position, I left the interview. I’m sitting in my car, ready to drive away, and I’m just kind of reflecting on how it went, how well I think I did. You know how you run through: Oh, I can’t believe I said that, and I wish I had said this. I really knew in that moment that if this position wasn’t my next step, I really needed to keep looking for a next step. That was a huge shift for me and a huge win for me because I had given myself permission to want something more than I had—to want it more quickly than I was likely to be able to build it in the position that I was in. I had demonstrated to myself that I could trust myself to walk that path, to give my best, to pursue something and put my best foot forward, and to feel good while doing it—to feel confident in myself.

That moment was a bit of a precious moment for me, kind of surreal, because I didn’t know yet—I didn’t have the spoiler alert that I was going to be offered the job. In that moment, that realization really mattered. I think it represented, to me, a world of difference from where I had been when we first started working together.

Mel: I love that too, because what I'm hearing there is that even though when you first started this journey, it was like, well, either I get this job, or I can be happy where I am. As you were going through it, you realized, actually, there's another option, which is to keep looking, because this experience has taught me and shown me what I want and really solidified what I want. I guess I'm bringing that up because I want everyone to realize that going through these experiences, we don’t always know what we're going to learn. We always think, okay, it's going to be this or this. Especially as leaders or as experienced people, we think we know exactly what's going to happen and what all the answers are, and what each decision is going to bring us—pros and cons—but leave space for the idea that there are things I’m going to learn that I have no idea I’m going to learn as I go through this. And is that something I’m willing, again, not only to be open to, but to have my back on, in case I don’t love what I’m learning from this experience.

One of the things I think was initially holding you back, without getting into the weeds, was the reason this job dropped into your lap was because a close friend of yours was bringing it forward and knew that you were perfect before you knew you were perfect for it. And you were like, I don’t know. We’re friends, and do I want to report to her? And is she the right style for me? And again, spoiler alert, in case someone that you're working with is listening to this, it’s all worked out. You figured it out. And actually, the way you talk about her, she sounds like a really great boss, actually, in the way that you speak about her. Talk a little bit about if you can, where you’re comfortable, that learning curve for you—and realizing that you actually had control with how you ought to show up for that relationship as well.

Ruth: In retrospect, I’m not sure how much of that was me trying to find a reason or to give myself permission to not go for this job, because it’s been one of the best and brightest pieces about this new job so far. But I remember bringing that forward to you, and your kind of comment was like, well, that’s something you can plan for, that’s something you can work out, that’s something you can talk about. It was kind of a bit of one of these things where I think I had abdicated a little bit my—I don’t know if ‘control’ is quite the right word—but my responsibility. 

When we first started working together, I really came off some of our calls thinking, I really don’t like how I sound. Like, I’m whining, and I’m complaining, and I sound like I am a victim of circumstance. And I think that’s how I felt—that I was very dependent on other people’s personalities, preferences, priorities, and timelines. And I was just kind of waiting in the background, ready to put my hand up if there happened to be an opportunity. It has felt very different starting this job. I’ve spent some time thinking about who I want to be and how I want to show up, what I want to be seen as, how I want to contribute, and how I want to be in this relationship with my new supervisor too. 

Mel: I love the way you explain that. I love the way that you sort of phrase it, like I was acting a little bit like a victim of circumstance, and I realized that it is my accountability. It is in my control. You get to decide who you want to be. Even for those folks out there who have micromanaging bosses or bosses who don’t give them enough time, either end of the spectrum, you get to control how you handle that circumstance without even trying to change them. It doesn’t mean you can’t ask for what you need, but that doesn’t mean you’re going to get it. And so, knowing that you’re in complete control with, okay, well, this is a scenario that’s been thrown my way, how do I want to lead this? How do I want to show up for this? How will I change the way that I work a little bit to accommodate for this? Whether it’s a person, a system, a client surprise, or a legislation change, depending on what you do for a living, there’s always going to be new circumstances that you need to learn to navigate, and that just comes with a job.

I remember, one of my favorite things to say is, “That’s a tomorrow problem.” When you believe that you can figure it out, when you have the self-trust to say, okay, well, I know that I will eventually come up with solutions on how to handle a situation—in your case, like building a strong relationship with my friend as my boss—and I figured that out. I trust myself to figure that out. Then everything just becomes a tomorrow problem. You give yourself permission just to deal with what’s in front of you. In that case, it was, okay, step one, tell my friend I’m open to interviewing. And then we could just take each step from there. Did you want to add anything to that before I go to the next thing?

Ruth: I was just going to say, too, I think one thing that was very helpful for me was this idea that you didn’t have to take the perfect step or try the perfect solution the first time. That idea that you can be deliberate about it, conscious about it, reflective about it, and keep trying and keep adjusting. And that that is the success, right? That is what gets you where you need to go, versus whipping out the final, beautiful, polished strategy that works the first time.

Mel: Yes, that is such a hard lesson for a lot of people to learn, and you really embraced that very quickly, which, again, is a testament to you. It’s just, oh, I get to just figure it out as I go along and not have to be perfect. I’ll do perfect things but improve things as I go. When we give ourselves permission to do that, that’s huge. Because a lot of us think, as leaders, I just came off a call, and this was actually the topic. As leaders, we think that we’re supposed to predict everything and have things sometimes laid out perfectly ahead of us so that everything goes so smoothly for our team or our clients or rolling out a product or whatever it is. But in actuality, our job as leaders is, yeah, can we get ourselves 70% of the way there, and then the other 30% is really how we show up for all the stuff that we didn’t know was going to happen after the fact? That is really where the rubber hits the road to a large extent.

We’re going to take a bit of a turn and talk about this self-belief you’ve been talking about. How has that impacted you as you approached onboarding in this new role?

Ruth: It’s been a very different onboarding experience, and a lot of that I attribute to this self-trust or this confidence that I’ve been able to bring in. We worked together to think about that and be intentional about that. And I feel like you challenged me a little bit on a tendency or a habit or thinking trap I fall into in terms of being quick to use what I learn to come to a decision, an opinion, or even a judgment about a situation or even about a person. And so, that was part of the thinking and being intentional about going into this new role. 

I didn’t really see what you were seeing, but I went in with that intention: this is a great opportunity to really practice that—that listening just to understand, just to be curious, just to get the lay of the land, just to learn—and it made a big difference. I obviously had been using a lot of brainpower to try and work out what I think about things and where I might land with things, and how things might look in the future, and what opinions and decisions I might make. And being able just to give myself permission to understand took a lot of pressure off. 

I can only imagine it made it easier to meet me in my new job and to help me understand what I need to understand. It’s led to some great conversations and great potential collaborations. But the biggest difference, I think, is how it feels showing up every day. I would not have thought I was carrying in a lot of pressure on myself to figure things out and contribute very quickly. But obviously, I was, if I’m recognizing such a difference with this new approach and this new kind of intention that I’m taking in.

Mel: I love that. A lot of the time, we put the pressure on ourselves to prove ourselves. I talk about this all the time, especially when we start a new job, or it could even just be with a new project maybe you’re assigned. We think that we need to have a lot of quick wins, and we need to demonstrate the skill set we promised very quickly. Sometimes what happens is people will actually say that to you, like, all right, now prove it, in some capacity, right? And so, our job is, I’m not saying don’t have some wins, but they don’t have to be quick.

The biggest win you can do, and the better way to create wins, is to actually listen and not think you need to solve every problem in every meeting that you go to. We've all had the new person come in and say, Oh, when I was here, we did this… I'm not saying that's terrible, but it's always good to ask questions like, Oh, why would you guys do it that way? What made you do it that way? Have you thought about doing something like this? If you did do something like this, how would it have worked? Be more curious versus just thinking that you need to provide the solution from where you worked before. 

Because what ends up happening is not that it's a bad solution, but people's eyes just roll back in their heads because they think that you're not listening to them. And the best way to get some credibility is just to support their journey to where they are now, try to understand it, and then work with them to come up with the solutions. It sounds like that’s what you're doing, and it takes the pressure off you to have all the answers, which is amazing, too.

Next question. You've talked a lot about this throughout this entire podcast, it doesn't matter how many things you want to summarize—but if you had to summarize it, what have you really learned about yourself through this entire process of coaching?

Ruth: I think that there's a phrase that has been coming to mind as I've been reflecting. As we kind of reach the end of the calendar year, I look back at the beginning of the year, and I can't imagine 2024 without this coaching experience. It's really changed this year for me—and beyond. When I try to think about how powerful it's been and what a difference it's made, it's kind of like this phrase that I've always loved, but I had kind of lost sight of: we revert to our best selves. I feel like that sums up my career journey this year. 

Obviously, there's been growth and change in skill sets, strategies, tools, language, and reframing, but I feel like I'm back to myself. I know what's important to me. I know what kind of person I want to be. I know what kind of contribution I want to make in the work world. I know how to do that on a daily basis and plan for that long term. And it feels a little bit like, Oh yeah, I'm back. I remember working that way in the past and had really lost it.

Mel: I love that. I'm so happy for you that you made this investment in yourself. And I know it wasn't an easy decision because I charge in US dollars, even though I'm Canadian—if you haven’t noticed us saying out a lot on this call, welcome to Canada! Especially that—it’s not an easy decision to make an investment in yourself. But in hindsight, what do you think the ROI is going to be on this investment for yourself? Because, I mean, I already know the answer. I'm listening to you. This is going to be life-changing for you in so many ways. But in terms of investments, how do you feel about this one?

Ruth: I would make it again in a heartbeat, and I'm recommending it wherever I can. It's been invaluable, and it'll be interesting to see as the years go by and as my career keeps going, how much difference that V in the road will make long term.

Mel: Yeah, I know. For me, myself, I get a lot of clients who are like, Well, my company won't invest in me, so I can't invest in myself. And I just want to offer this: I invest in coaching for myself, and I'm very self-aware, but we're never 100% self-aware. When we're trying to do hard things and grow as people—whether it's getting a promotion or building a business or whatever it is, or just being a better leader—we can't always see ourselves as clearly as someone else who's trained to look for certain things can see us. 

I find that even for my own business, I wouldn't be where I am without paying someone to see me and help me see myself. Once you see something, sometimes you can't unsee it, which I only think of as a good thing—even sometimes when we see things we don't love. But once we see it, we can't unsee it. And so now we can do something about it, right? Now we can actually activate some solution once we see where the block is.

Ruth: Yeah, and I kind of think back over some of our sessions, and there were definitely reframes that I knew that.  But there were a few moments that really stand out, where I think, I don't know if I would have ever come to the place where I realized that was the thought that was getting in my way, or that was what was holding me back. And your—or that insight—again, once I saw it, I couldn't unsee it without the coaching relationship, for sure.

Mel: Well, I love that. I think it's a great place to end. I want to congratulate you on what you've achieved. In the six months that we worked together, you made the decision to invest in yourself. But in addition to that, you took every session—you would watch them back, you would assess yourself, you would do all the work. You took the chances. You had your own back. And I know, as you bring that to your new job—and they're so lucky to have you—you’re going to be able to really help. You realize what needs to happen to get to the goal, even if that means it's something uncomfortable for you, and you move forward. That is a skill set, and that is courage that’s going to serve you so well as you move forward. So I just want to congratulate you on everything you've achieved this year.

Ruth: Thank you. Thanks so much for being a part of it.

Mel: I loved it. Thank you for inviting me in.